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Post by Tonja Renee on May 30, 2008 11:24:13 GMT -4
Woke up this morning.. GAS for regular unleaded is now $1.403/ltr... That converts to $5.303/USG...
When is someone going to do something?
I also read that there are a lot of Farmers using up their farmland to grow corn for Ethynol... Doesn't anyone else think this is rediculous?
In the last 10 years the price of oil as Quadrupeled... What will be the breaking point?
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Hunter60
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Post by Hunter60 on May 30, 2008 12:48:44 GMT -4
Woke up this morning.. GAS for regular unleaded is now $1.403/ltr... That converts to $5.303/USG... When is someone going to do something? I also read that there are a lot of Farmers using up their farmland to grow corn for Ethynol... Doesn't anyone else think this is rediculous? In the last 10 years the price of oil as Quadrupeled... What will be the breaking point? I wish I had an answer for you Tonja. I have no idea. Part of me believes that this manufactured by the middle-east and partially by Big Oil and another part of me believes that the world truly is running out of oil and there is no going back. All I know is that world economy is on the brink of collapse, a major global depression is looming and no one appears to be all the concerned about it. It's times like this that I am glad (selfishly) that I am closing in on 50. I can't imagine being a youngster facing the world today. Very few things seem to make much sense anymore.
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Post by elklandercc on May 30, 2008 13:58:52 GMT -4
Well, you have the wargoing on so they can jack it up because of dangers, and the fact that people are still buying at such high prices, so why not keep jacking them up. Diesel is really pissing me off though, it used to be a lot cheaper than gas, but it keeps going up and up and up for what? Its a lot easier to make than gas, not to mention more people buy gas.
Lucky here in NJ though, its one of the chapest places to buy fuel.
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Post by stratman on May 30, 2008 14:01:11 GMT -4
I blame J R Ewing.
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Post by earthman on May 30, 2008 14:01:43 GMT -4
This is why I take the bus. Or walk.
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Post by Tonja Renee on May 30, 2008 14:16:15 GMT -4
And to top it all off.. This week the Nova Scotia Power Corporation (a privately owned monopoly) Has requested a 12.5% rate hike for electricity... This would be the 5th hike in the last as many years.
And what urkes me the most is the government says inflation is only up 2%, which is total BS.. I don't know how they are working out their formulas, but it definately smells fishy to me.
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hdj
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Post by hdj on May 30, 2008 15:56:34 GMT -4
Yeah, the current situation really sucks....I stopped on my way to work this morning and filled up for $3.86 a gallon. Not as bad as other places, but bad enough....
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Post by earthman on May 30, 2008 16:05:51 GMT -4
And what urkes me the most is the government says inflation is only up 2%, which is total BS.. I don't know how they are working out their formulas, but it definately smells fishy to me. That's because you live in Nova Scotia. Everything smells fishy there.
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Raskolnikov
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Post by Raskolnikov on May 30, 2008 18:22:31 GMT -4
I rode my motorcycle today.
/doing something //50mpg, b*tches
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hdj
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"Hey, Zakk Mylde, let's kick it up a notch"
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Post by hdj on May 30, 2008 19:02:25 GMT -4
I'm seriously considering buying another bike to scoot around on to save gas. Wish I didn't sell my Harley Sportster 1200 about 5 or 6 years ago. I really regret selling it....
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Post by Tonja Renee on May 31, 2008 7:15:47 GMT -4
I would definitely buy a bike if I didn't have two children to drive every day.
It just bugs me that the only reason these prices are going up the way they are is greed. Oil companies made good money when Oil was 60 bucks a barrel, anything over and above that is gravy for them.
I just find it upsetting that when your home is heated by oil, and your vehicle runs on gas... And there isn't much of an alternative... Oh we have Natural Gas being pumped through a gas line from around sable island... but its being pumped straight through Nova Scotia to the US. We have been told that natural gas will only be available for large companies here, so if you are a resident - it will never happen...
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Raskolnikov
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Post by Raskolnikov on May 31, 2008 16:19:41 GMT -4
It just bugs me that the only reason these prices are going up the way they are is greed. Oil companies made good money when Oil was 60 bucks a barrel, anything over and above that is gravy for them. To be fair, oil companies are not 100% to blame (though they are not complaining for very obvious reasons). A large part of the problem is investors; for a few years now they've been buying oil the same way you can buy gold – all under the presumption that its value is only going to go up. Of course this means that they themselves are helping to drive up the price of oil. Another factor relating directly to the price of gasoline is refineries: Since at least 2003 or 2004 oil refineries have been at 100% capacity and no new oil refineries are being built in spite of the fact that a number of them have been destroyed by hurricanes in that time period. The fault for this lies as much in the hands of environmentalists and every day people (who don't want an oil refinery in their back yard) as it does with the oil giants. I think a better example of pure greed would be diesel fuel prices... there is no earthly reason why diesel should be more expensive than gasoline; it's less refined and therefore easier to make. That it's so expensive is a clear-cut example of big oil deciding that they wanted more income at the expense of everybody else.
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Rustee
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Post by Rustee on May 31, 2008 19:51:22 GMT -4
A large part of the problem is investors; for a few years now they've been buying oil the same way you can buy gold – all under the presumption that its value is only going to go up. Of course this means that they themselves are helping to drive up the price of oil. It's interesting that you mention gold Rask. Just this morning I was reading an article (a few months old, but still applicable) that mentioned the similarities of investors in those markets. There's always a few things I keep in mind concerning the price of gas: - Inflation - In 1950, gas cost about 30 cents/gallon. Adjusting for inflation, that would equal about $2.64/gallon, assuming taxes stayed the same, which they haven't...
- Taxes - Taxes accounted for 1.5% of the price in 1950. Today, federal, state, and local taxes account for approximately 20% of the U.S. per gallon price (obviously taxes are an even higher percentage in U.K. and Canada). Taking inflation and the increase in taxes into account (assuming no change in supply or demand) the same gallon of gas that cost 30 cents in 1950 should today cost about $3.13.
For example, Exxon recently reported net profits of $10.9 billion in the first quarter of this year. Yet they paid $9.3 billion in income taxes to governments here and abroad. Including various sales taxes, excise taxes, severance taxes, and property taxes, this figure rises to $29.3 billion, nearly three times the net profits it earned for shareholders.
- Supply/demand - The world economy is growing, India and China often being the examples given. And as mentioned, new refineries haven't been built. Additionally, offshore oil/gas is prohibitively restricted by regulations. Leaving us to get much of our supply from politically unstable areas of the world, adding a "risk premium" in the futures markets.
- State-Owned Oil - The five largest private global oil companies together own only about 4% of the world's oil reserves. Meanwhile OPEC alone controls about 77% of oil reserves, with many other state owned monopolies, like Mexico's Pemex, filling in much of the rest. Government control in the industry leads to mismanagement, incompetence, and corruption in not only their current production capacity, but also results in less investment in exploration and new production facilities.
Thus, many of the benefits of capitalist competition, such as efficiency, don't materialize. The U.S. only has about 2% of the world's oil reserves, but produces little more than 8% of global production, largely because they are privately owned and managed.
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Hunter60
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Post by Hunter60 on May 31, 2008 20:17:05 GMT -4
Rustee,
You're very knowledgeable about a number of subjects. Let me ask you what you think about this. My Uncle sent me a rather detailed email that makes the case that the worlds oil supply will be depleted by the yeat 2030. I can forward it to you if you like. Is there any truth to that?
H60
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Rustee
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Post by Rustee on May 31, 2008 21:51:28 GMT -4
Highly doubtful Hunter. For one thing, there's been claims that we're in "peak oil" since at least the 1970's, so I just chalk it up to unwarranted alarmism. They're still finding new oil reserves, quite often very large ones. I haven't followed up on the merit of it since reading it, but I had this article on hand from awhile back discussing new theories for finding oil. Additionally, there's the relatively new drilling/extraction innovations (sideways drilling for instance) that increases total production of current reserves and allows access to previously unreachable sites (or prohibitively costly) due to location. And finally, even if you accept the premise, with the price of oil so high, the economic viability of refining lesser forms rises, like the oil shale in Colorado and oil sands in Canada. The known reserves of such sources are larger than known liquid oil reserves, which could potentially last centuries.
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Raskolnikov
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Post by Raskolnikov on Jun 1, 2008 2:45:38 GMT -4
^^^ What he said.
If you want more information on this subject, I suggest taking a look at a book called "The Skeptical Environmentalist." It covers a lot of this subject in detail.
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Post by iiholly on Jun 3, 2008 12:00:56 GMT -4
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24654728/"Obama’s math is pretty good: At 12,000 miles per year, you’ll drive roughly 3,000 miles during the summer months. Assuming you get 20 miles per gallon, you’ll burn through 150 gallons. At 18.5 cents each, that would save you $27.75. On the other hand, if you figured out how to get to work one day a week without your car (or worked from home) you could save much more. You’d also have a real impact on demand, and therefore, on prices. Assuming you drive 30 miles round-trip to work, in three months you would save 19.5 gallons (at 20 mpg). Based on the latest weekly average pump price of $3.72 a gallon, that adds up to more than $72. At $4 a gallon, you'd save $78." Thats from the article. Sums up why I don't support the gas tax. I understand that it would help out the huge corporations, but I don't believe in reaganomics. What is given to the top usually stays at the top. Not to mention those taxes are used for road repair and concstruction which is essential. What bothers me is that all these candidates say we need to spend more money researching... and that sums up their answer on top of the few who support the gas tax. Where is a definite answer? People are going to starve. I feel bad about it. It makes sense though if the earth is reaching its max capacity as to how many people should be alive= how much food can be produced.
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Raskolnikov
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Post by Raskolnikov on Jun 3, 2008 18:45:23 GMT -4
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24654728/"Obama’s math is pretty good: At 12,000 miles per year, you’ll drive roughly 3,000 miles during the summer months. Assuming you get 20 miles per gallon, you’ll burn through 150 gallons. At 18.5 cents each, that would save you $27.75. On the other hand, if you figured out how to get to work one day a week without your car (or worked from home) you could save much more. You’d also have a real impact on demand, and therefore, on prices. Assuming you drive 30 miles round-trip to work, in three months you would save 19.5 gallons (at 20 mpg). Based on the latest weekly average pump price of $3.72 a gallon, that adds up to more than $72. At $4 a gallon, you'd save $78." While all of this is true, I've never lived in any circumstance where I've been able to not drive to work one day a week (unless of course somebody went WAY out of their way to get me). The underlying fact is that most Americans who don't live an a major urban center are 100% dependent on their cars for transportation. No matter how great an idea somebody may have, if they can't take that one reality into consideration then there idea is in no way a 'solution.'
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Rustee
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Post by Rustee on Jun 4, 2008 1:20:07 GMT -4
I found this to be the most relevant (and honest) part of that article in relation to the candidates' proposals: They grilled oil executives in the Senate just last month...and not for the first time, nor the last I imagine. The Chevron Exec. suggested to allow environmentally responsible drilling on the outer continental shelf. Recall the 2005 hurricane season that included hurricanes Rita and Katrina, among others to churn up the Gulf of Mexico. There was very little oil spilled, despite hundreds of rigs being damaged or totally destroyed. The Senate responded by asking the exec. how much his compensation was last year. That was productive. Again, I might ask how much was the government compensated last year through oil/gas taxes? How much risk did they take in finding this avenue of revenue? What's their profit margin? There's a shortage of highway funds? I don't buy it, not with that kind of revenue. Re-allocated elsewhere or just incompetently blown is more likely. Besides, that's like the first rule of being a politician: never abolish a tax, even temporarily, because you may never get it back. Then they might have to cut spending (worst nightmare)...wait, nah... they'd just print more money!Be very hesitant when urging government to step in and "do something"...they've done enough already.
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Post by iiholly on Jun 4, 2008 8:44:22 GMT -4
American workers (or any other country) are just going to need to learn to adapt until new technology is affordable and exists. The work place needs to adapt before the workers can, I understand that. I also understand the fact that most americans do commute, I commute an hour everyday to work, half hour to school. My mother commutes and hour as well. With all the technology, you think their would be a way more Americans could telecommute if not once a week, once a month. Even that would have more impact than cutting the gas tax. Convenience and solutions don't usually coinicide and if we as individuals claim helplessness or don't act then I'm more than ready to ask the government to do something or atleast begin to offer more solutions. I do buy the fact that highway taxes are essential. I lived in NOVA and around the DC area for a good portion of my life. Traffic is a hot mess, new roads need to be constructed. People waste gas sitting in traffic everyday going to work. Even if it is essential my main issue with it is not where the tax money goes but HOW effective cutting the tax would be. Have you ever seen where they have the oil rigs on the gulf. The brilliant bright blue gulf around the Grand Isle is brownish with dead things scattered all along the shore, and that was before Katrina came through. How environmentally responsible can that really be? If we do make that sacrifice, how much will it really help gas prices considering the US only has 2% of the world's oil reserve? I think it would help out Chevron's deep pockets more than it would the average American. I do not know how much damage... i mean drilling... they had in mind though (yes I am hippie).
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